Trials@uspto.gov Paper 20
`Tel: 571-272-7822 Date: November 18, 2025
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`APPLE INC,,
`Petitioner,
`
`V.
`
`SMITH INTERFACE TECHNOLOGIES, LLC,
`Patent Owner.
`
`IPR2024-01256
`Patent 11,740,727 Bl
`
`Before JEFFREY S. SMITH, MIRIAM L. QUINN, and
`SHARON FENICK, Administrative Patent Judges.
`
`QUINN, Administrative Patent Judge.
`ORDER
`
`Setting Oral Argument
`37C.FR. §42.70
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`IPR2024-01256
`Patent 11,740,727 Bl
`
`I. ORAL ARGUMENT
`
`A. Time and Format'
`
`Oral arguments will commence at 9:00 AM Central Time on
`Tuesday, December 16, 2025 at the Southwest Regional Outreach Office of
`the USPTO, in Dallas, Texas.? Because of an asserted conflict, and upon
`agreement with Patent Owner, counsel for Petitioner is authorized to appear
`in person at the USPTO, Alexandria Virginia hearing room, located in the
`Madison building. The Board will provide a court reporter for the hearing,
`and the reporter’s transcript will constitute the official record of the hearing.
`The Board expects that one judge will be present in person and two will
`appear remotely.
`
`Petitioner will have a total of sixty (60) minutes to present argument
`in this case and Patent Owner will have a total of sixty (60) minutes to
`respond. Petitioner will open the hearing by presenting its case regarding
`the challenged claims for which the Board instituted trial. Thereafter, Patent
`Owner will respond to Petitioner’s argument. Petitioner may reserve
`rebuttal time to respond to arguments presented by Patent Owner. In
`
`accordance with the Consolidated Trial Practice Guide® (“CTPG”), issued in
`
`!'If a party is no longer able to appear in-person for the hearing, the party
`must contact PTABHearings@uspto.gov as soon as possible.
`
`2 Visitors to any USPTO facility where identification is required must
`present state-issued identification that is REAL ID-compliant. Alternatively,
`visitors can present another form of government-issued photo identification
`listed on the Department of Homeland Security Transportation Security
`Administration’s Acceptable IDs webpage at
`https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification.
`
`3 Available at https://www.uspto.gov/TrialPracticeGuideConsolidated.
`
`2
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`[PR2024-01256
`
`Patent 11,740,727 Bl
`
`November 2019, Patent Owner may request to reserve time for a brief sur-
`rebuttal. See CTPG §3.
`
`The parties may request a pre-hearing conference in advance of the
`hearing. See Id. at 82. “The purpose of the pre-hearing conference is to
`afford the parties the opportunity to preview (but not argue) the issues to be
`discussed at the hearing, and to seek the Board’s guidance as to particular
`issues that the panel would like addressed by the parties.” Id. If either party
`desires a pre-hearing conference, the parties should jointly contact the Board
`
`at Trials@uspto.gov by DUE DATE 6 (as indicated in the Scheduling Order
`
`in this proceeding) to request a conference call for that purpose. Any request
`should include an agreed-upon set of issues for discussion and several
`proposed times for the conference. Any pre-hearing conference should take
`
`place at least three business days before the hearing date.
`
`B. Demonstratives
`
`As set forth in 37 C.F.R. § 42.70(b), demonstratives shall be served on
`opposing counsel at least seven (7) business days before the hearing date and
`filed no later than four days before the hearing date.*
`
`Demonstratives are not a mechanism for making new arguments.
`Demonstratives also are not evidence, and will not be relied upon as
`evidence. Rather, demonstratives are visual aids to a party’s oral
`presentation regarding arguments and evidence previously presented and
`discussed in the papers. Accordingly, demonstratives shall be clearly
`
`marked with the words “DEMONSTRATIVE EXHIBIT — NOT
`
`* The parties may stipulate to an alternative schedule for serving
`demonstratives, and request that the Board modify the schedule for filing
`demonstratives at least seven (7) business days before the hearing date.
`
`3
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`[PR2024-01256
`
`Patent 11,740,727 Bl
`
`EVIDENCE” 1n the footer. See Dell Inc. v. Acceleron, LLC, 884 F.3d 1364,
`1369 (Fed. Cir. 2018) (holding that the Board is obligated under its own
`regulations to dismiss untimely argument “raised for the first time during
`oral argument”). “[N]o new evidence may be presented at the oral
`argument.” CTPG 86; see also St. Jude Med., Cardiology Div., Inc. v. Bd. of
`Regents of the Univ. of Mich., IPR2013-00041, Paper 65, 2-3 (PTAB
`
`Jan. 27, 2014) (explaining that “new” evidence includes evidence already of
`record but not previously discussed in any paper of record).
`
`Furthermore, because of the strict prohibition against the presentation
`of new evidence or arguments at a hearing, it is strongly recommended that
`each demonstrative include a citation to a paper in the record, which allows
`the Board to easily ascertain whether a given demonstrative contains “new”
`argument or evidence or, instead, contains only that which is developed in
`the existing record.
`
`Due to the nature of the Board’s consideration of demonstratives and
`the opportunity afforded for the parties to reach an agreement without
`involving the Board, the Board does not anticipate that objections to
`demonstratives are likely to be sustained. Nevertheless, to the extent that a
`party objects to the propriety of any demonstrative, the parties shall meet
`and confer in good faith to resolve any objections to demonstratives prior to
`filing the objections with the Board. If such objections cannot be resolved,
`the parties may file any objections to demonstratives with the Board no later
`than the time of the hearing. The objections shall identify with particularity
`which portions of the demonstratives are subject to objection (and should
`include a copy of the objected-to portions) and include a one (1) sentence
`
`statement of the reason for each objection. No argument or further
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`[PR2024-01256
`
`Patent 11,740,727 Bl
`
`explanation is permitted. The Board will consider any objections, and may
`reserve ruling on the objections.> Any objection to demonstratives that is
`not timely presented will be considered waived.
`
`Finally, the parties are reminded that each presenter should identify
`clearly and specifically each paper (e.g., by slide or screen number for a
`demonstrative) referenced during the hearing to ensure the clarity and
`accuracy of the court reporter’s transcript and for the benefit of all
`
`participants appearing electronically.
`
`C. Presenting Counsel
`The Board generally expects lead counsel for each party to be present
`at the hearing. See CTPG 11. Any counsel of record may present the
`
`party’s argument as long as that counsel is present.
`
`D. Remote Attendance Requests
`
`Members of the public may request to listen to and/or view this
`hearing. If resources are available, the Board generally expects to grant such
`requests. If either party objects to the Board granting such requests, for
`example, because confidential information may be discussed, the party must
`notify the Board at PTABHearings@uspto.gov at least ten (10) business
`days prior to the hearing date.
`
`E. Audio/Visual Equipment Requests
`Any special requests for audio-visual equipment should be directed to
`PTABHearings@uspto.gov. A party may also indicate any special requests
`
`related this hearing, such as a request to accommodate deaf or hard-of-
`
`> If time permits, the Board may schedule a conference call with the parties
`to discuss any filed objections.
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`[PR2024-01256
`
`Patent 11,740,727 Bl
`
`hearing individuals and blind or low- vision individuals, and indicate how
`the PTAB may accommodate the special request. Any special requests must
`be presented in a separate communication at least five (5) business days
`
`before the hearing date.
`
`F. Legal Experience and Advancement Program
`
`Parties are encouraged to participate in the LEAP program.® Either
`party may request that a qualifying LEAP practitioner participate in the
`program and conduct at least a portion of the party’s oral argument. The
`Board will grant up to 15 minutes of additional argument time to that
`party. A party should submit the LEAP Practitioner Verification Form and
`Request for Oral Hearing Participation, at least 5 business days before the
`
`oral hearing, by email to the Board at PTABHearings@uspto.gov.
`
`II. ORDER
`Accordingly, it is
`ORDERED that oral argument for this proceeding shall commence at
`9:00 AM Central Time on Tuesday, December 16, 2025 at the Southwest
`Regional Outreach Office’ of the USPTO, 207 South Houston Street,
`Hearing Room 155, Dallas, Texas, and proceed in the manner set forth
`herein. Counsel for Petitioner is authorized to appear in person at the
`
`USPTO, Alexandria Virginia hearing room in the Madison building.
`
`6 Information about the LEAP program and the combined LEAP Practitioner
`Request for Oral Hearing Participation and Verification Form can be found
`at www.uspto.gov/leap.
`
`7 https://www.uspto.gov/about-us/uspto-locations/southwest.
`
`6
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`IPR2024-01256
`Patent 11,740,727 B1
`
`FOR PETITIONER:
`
`W. Karl Renner
`David Holt
`Kenneth Darby
`Jennifer Huang
`axf-ptab@fr.com
`dth@fr.com
`kdarby@fr.com
`jhuang(@fr.com
`
`FOR PATENT OWNER:
`
`Eagle Robinson
`
`Daniel Leventhal
`
`Chad Wallis
`eagle.robinson@nortonrosefulbright.com
`daniel.leventhal@nortonrosefulbright.com
`chad.wallis@nortonrosefulbright.com
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`Tel: 571-272-7822 Date: November 18, 2025
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`APPLE INC,,
`Petitioner,
`
`V.
`
`SMITH INTERFACE TECHNOLOGIES, LLC,
`Patent Owner.
`
`IPR2024-01256
`Patent 11,740,727 Bl
`
`Before JEFFREY S. SMITH, MIRIAM L. QUINN, and
`SHARON FENICK, Administrative Patent Judges.
`
`QUINN, Administrative Patent Judge.
`ORDER
`
`Setting Oral Argument
`37C.FR. §42.70
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`IPR2024-01256
`Patent 11,740,727 Bl
`
`I. ORAL ARGUMENT
`
`A. Time and Format'
`
`Oral arguments will commence at 9:00 AM Central Time on
`Tuesday, December 16, 2025 at the Southwest Regional Outreach Office of
`the USPTO, in Dallas, Texas.? Because of an asserted conflict, and upon
`agreement with Patent Owner, counsel for Petitioner is authorized to appear
`in person at the USPTO, Alexandria Virginia hearing room, located in the
`Madison building. The Board will provide a court reporter for the hearing,
`and the reporter’s transcript will constitute the official record of the hearing.
`The Board expects that one judge will be present in person and two will
`appear remotely.
`
`Petitioner will have a total of sixty (60) minutes to present argument
`in this case and Patent Owner will have a total of sixty (60) minutes to
`respond. Petitioner will open the hearing by presenting its case regarding
`the challenged claims for which the Board instituted trial. Thereafter, Patent
`Owner will respond to Petitioner’s argument. Petitioner may reserve
`rebuttal time to respond to arguments presented by Patent Owner. In
`
`accordance with the Consolidated Trial Practice Guide® (“CTPG”), issued in
`
`!'If a party is no longer able to appear in-person for the hearing, the party
`must contact PTABHearings@uspto.gov as soon as possible.
`
`2 Visitors to any USPTO facility where identification is required must
`present state-issued identification that is REAL ID-compliant. Alternatively,
`visitors can present another form of government-issued photo identification
`listed on the Department of Homeland Security Transportation Security
`Administration’s Acceptable IDs webpage at
`https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification.
`
`3 Available at https://www.uspto.gov/TrialPracticeGuideConsolidated.
`
`2
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`[PR2024-01256
`
`Patent 11,740,727 Bl
`
`November 2019, Patent Owner may request to reserve time for a brief sur-
`rebuttal. See CTPG §3.
`
`The parties may request a pre-hearing conference in advance of the
`hearing. See Id. at 82. “The purpose of the pre-hearing conference is to
`afford the parties the opportunity to preview (but not argue) the issues to be
`discussed at the hearing, and to seek the Board’s guidance as to particular
`issues that the panel would like addressed by the parties.” Id. If either party
`desires a pre-hearing conference, the parties should jointly contact the Board
`
`at Trials@uspto.gov by DUE DATE 6 (as indicated in the Scheduling Order
`
`in this proceeding) to request a conference call for that purpose. Any request
`should include an agreed-upon set of issues for discussion and several
`proposed times for the conference. Any pre-hearing conference should take
`
`place at least three business days before the hearing date.
`
`B. Demonstratives
`
`As set forth in 37 C.F.R. § 42.70(b), demonstratives shall be served on
`opposing counsel at least seven (7) business days before the hearing date and
`filed no later than four days before the hearing date.*
`
`Demonstratives are not a mechanism for making new arguments.
`Demonstratives also are not evidence, and will not be relied upon as
`evidence. Rather, demonstratives are visual aids to a party’s oral
`presentation regarding arguments and evidence previously presented and
`discussed in the papers. Accordingly, demonstratives shall be clearly
`
`marked with the words “DEMONSTRATIVE EXHIBIT — NOT
`
`* The parties may stipulate to an alternative schedule for serving
`demonstratives, and request that the Board modify the schedule for filing
`demonstratives at least seven (7) business days before the hearing date.
`
`3
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`[PR2024-01256
`
`Patent 11,740,727 Bl
`
`EVIDENCE” 1n the footer. See Dell Inc. v. Acceleron, LLC, 884 F.3d 1364,
`1369 (Fed. Cir. 2018) (holding that the Board is obligated under its own
`regulations to dismiss untimely argument “raised for the first time during
`oral argument”). “[N]o new evidence may be presented at the oral
`argument.” CTPG 86; see also St. Jude Med., Cardiology Div., Inc. v. Bd. of
`Regents of the Univ. of Mich., IPR2013-00041, Paper 65, 2-3 (PTAB
`
`Jan. 27, 2014) (explaining that “new” evidence includes evidence already of
`record but not previously discussed in any paper of record).
`
`Furthermore, because of the strict prohibition against the presentation
`of new evidence or arguments at a hearing, it is strongly recommended that
`each demonstrative include a citation to a paper in the record, which allows
`the Board to easily ascertain whether a given demonstrative contains “new”
`argument or evidence or, instead, contains only that which is developed in
`the existing record.
`
`Due to the nature of the Board’s consideration of demonstratives and
`the opportunity afforded for the parties to reach an agreement without
`involving the Board, the Board does not anticipate that objections to
`demonstratives are likely to be sustained. Nevertheless, to the extent that a
`party objects to the propriety of any demonstrative, the parties shall meet
`and confer in good faith to resolve any objections to demonstratives prior to
`filing the objections with the Board. If such objections cannot be resolved,
`the parties may file any objections to demonstratives with the Board no later
`than the time of the hearing. The objections shall identify with particularity
`which portions of the demonstratives are subject to objection (and should
`include a copy of the objected-to portions) and include a one (1) sentence
`
`statement of the reason for each objection. No argument or further
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`[PR2024-01256
`
`Patent 11,740,727 Bl
`
`explanation is permitted. The Board will consider any objections, and may
`reserve ruling on the objections.> Any objection to demonstratives that is
`not timely presented will be considered waived.
`
`Finally, the parties are reminded that each presenter should identify
`clearly and specifically each paper (e.g., by slide or screen number for a
`demonstrative) referenced during the hearing to ensure the clarity and
`accuracy of the court reporter’s transcript and for the benefit of all
`
`participants appearing electronically.
`
`C. Presenting Counsel
`The Board generally expects lead counsel for each party to be present
`at the hearing. See CTPG 11. Any counsel of record may present the
`
`party’s argument as long as that counsel is present.
`
`D. Remote Attendance Requests
`
`Members of the public may request to listen to and/or view this
`hearing. If resources are available, the Board generally expects to grant such
`requests. If either party objects to the Board granting such requests, for
`example, because confidential information may be discussed, the party must
`notify the Board at PTABHearings@uspto.gov at least ten (10) business
`days prior to the hearing date.
`
`E. Audio/Visual Equipment Requests
`Any special requests for audio-visual equipment should be directed to
`PTABHearings@uspto.gov. A party may also indicate any special requests
`
`related this hearing, such as a request to accommodate deaf or hard-of-
`
`> If time permits, the Board may schedule a conference call with the parties
`to discuss any filed objections.
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`[PR2024-01256
`
`Patent 11,740,727 Bl
`
`hearing individuals and blind or low- vision individuals, and indicate how
`the PTAB may accommodate the special request. Any special requests must
`be presented in a separate communication at least five (5) business days
`
`before the hearing date.
`
`F. Legal Experience and Advancement Program
`
`Parties are encouraged to participate in the LEAP program.® Either
`party may request that a qualifying LEAP practitioner participate in the
`program and conduct at least a portion of the party’s oral argument. The
`Board will grant up to 15 minutes of additional argument time to that
`party. A party should submit the LEAP Practitioner Verification Form and
`Request for Oral Hearing Participation, at least 5 business days before the
`
`oral hearing, by email to the Board at PTABHearings@uspto.gov.
`
`II. ORDER
`Accordingly, it is
`ORDERED that oral argument for this proceeding shall commence at
`9:00 AM Central Time on Tuesday, December 16, 2025 at the Southwest
`Regional Outreach Office’ of the USPTO, 207 South Houston Street,
`Hearing Room 155, Dallas, Texas, and proceed in the manner set forth
`herein. Counsel for Petitioner is authorized to appear in person at the
`
`USPTO, Alexandria Virginia hearing room in the Madison building.
`
`6 Information about the LEAP program and the combined LEAP Practitioner
`Request for Oral Hearing Participation and Verification Form can be found
`at www.uspto.gov/leap.
`
`7 https://www.uspto.gov/about-us/uspto-locations/southwest.
`
`6
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`IPR2024-01256
`Patent 11,740,727 B1
`
`FOR PETITIONER:
`
`W. Karl Renner
`David Holt
`Kenneth Darby
`Jennifer Huang
`axf-ptab@fr.com
`dth@fr.com
`kdarby@fr.com
`jhuang(@fr.com
`
`FOR PATENT OWNER:
`
`Eagle Robinson
`
`Daniel Leventhal
`
`Chad Wallis
`eagle.robinson@nortonrosefulbright.com
`daniel.leventhal@nortonrosefulbright.com
`chad.wallis@nortonrosefulbright.com
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
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